Young Men's Christian Association - girls $2.00, boys $4.00
One of our NCFM members discovered that the YMCA was charging boys more than girls for skateboarding at the YMCA’s skateboard park. Our Secretary Al Rava investigated and we thought it best to send the “Y” a letter.
The YMCA for decades has provided a wide range of beneficial services to the young and old. We felt it would be in their best interests to discontinue such discrimination since it’s illegal in California and they could be sued, which would necessarily mean less money for programs.
Interestingly, the YMCA for years primarily provided services for males while the YWCA primarily provided services for females. Now they both provide services to females, a lot of services. Fortunately, the YMCA still provides some services to males. The San Diego YMCA was only trying to attract more girl skateboarders by offering discriminatory fees… that is, the Young Mens Christian Association. Have you ever heard of the YWCA offering services for males? Maybe they do. I just have not heard of any. Funny how that worked out isn’t it?
Click on the link shown below to read our letter. The YMCA’s response follows my email below. So far we have not received a “Thank You” for helping.
4/4/2011
Mr. Porter,
Thank you for your below reply to our letter and for the Y’s decision to end its policy of charging young men more than young women to use the Y’s skate park.
The Y’s defense of its practice charging females half as much as males for the same services, “to encourage girls to engage in a sport that has long been male dominated,” is akin to (1) colleges justifying charging male students half the tuition that female students pay to encourage more males to attend college because college students are predominantly female, (2) laws schools justifying charging male students half the tuition that female students pay to encourage more males to attend laws school because law school students are predominantly female, or (3) Michael’s or any craft store charging males half the price females pay for all items because crafts such as sewing and needle crafts, floral arranging, and scrapbooking have long been female dominated.
I trust any “alternative approach to promote gender equality” for skateboarders will also be employed in all of the Y’s activities that are female dominated, while complying with California’s anti-discrimination laws.
Thank you again for your and the Y’s quick response to my letter.
Harry Crouch
President, National Coalition for Men
4/42011
Dear Mr. Crouch:
Upon receipt of your letter, the Mission Valley YMCA discontinued promoting its skate park to girls by offering a discounted admission fee. The sole purpose of such discount was to encourage girls to engage in a sport that has long been male dominated. We will find an alternative approach to promote gender equality.
Please direct future correspondence to the YMCA of San Diego County, and any of our branch operations, to my personal attention. I am
Very truly yours,
Bernie Porter
Bernie Porter
Senior Vice President & General Counsel
YMCA OF SAN DIEGO COUNTY
*sniff sniff* Is that… *sniff* It IS! I knew I smelled troll!
*sniiifffff* Ohhh, and it's a big one!
So… would you fellas be ok with a woman joining the NFL to play football?
Although the issue hasn’t arisen for NCFM, NCFM would probably take no position on that if the team consented to it. (And legally, I don’t believe membership in an NFL team is deemed a public accommodation, so I don’t think the NFL having a male-only or female-only team violates any laws.) But if male fans were *charged* more than female fans to attend a game, NCFM would probably oppose that. Also, although I’m not sure whether it would actually be illegal, NCFM almost certainly would speak out if the NFL created a co-ed team and a woman-only team but no men-only team, because that would treat men unequally. As I said, someone once complained to us about that happening at a local city-run park and we did object to it.
Thanks again NCFM. The semi-intelligible comments from the sloping forehead brigade (little billy) would seem to indicate that the biggest impediment to equality may not be man-hating feminists, but the chivalrous manginas who feel threatened whenever a man stands up to gender inequality.
You see if these prices are changed, i might get into a fight and have to go live with my aunt and uncle in belair :/
69th POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NFCW never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down
A wild masculinist appears…
Pokeball, GO!
Good job, NCFM! Finally an organization that is actively working to end discrimination. Making sure that the YMCA know better than to dole out unfair differences based on gender. It's almost as unfair as women making an average of 75 cents for every dollar a man gets for the same job (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States). You guys are all about equality, so I'm sure you're sending letters about that too…… right? …RIGHT?!
Seriously, though, is this website even real? My (admittedly wavering) trust in humanity would lead me to believe this is all one big satire. Alas, probably not. I find it absolutely astounding how ass-backwards you guys have things. Women are oppressing men?! Are you serious? You guys are just cowards who can't face up to the historical fact that for most of human existence, men have abused, oppressed, possessed and generally been massive jerks to women.
You talk about colleges having more females in them. True. Also true: most high-ranking professional jobs are filled by men. So you know, women get more education and still get passed over for jobs they're qualified to do in order to employ less-educated men. Not to mention, well… you know what? If you guys cared about facts this website wouldn't exist. Have fun in your NO MA'AM meetings.
Ah Steve…always good to see the well trained lap dog.
The pay gap (being due to sexism) is a myth. Google "CONSAD report," "Catherine Hakim" (an economist), and Warren Farrell for more. It has been long proven that the pay gap is due to the choices women make. No law in the land is going to change that. Don't try to make us – men – feel bad because of the choices women make.
As for whether or now women are oppressing men, that's not really the point is it? If we want a truly egalitarian society, then we should point out when society is pigeon holing (or yes, oppressing) men. THAT is what feminism was supposed to be about. It wasn't about perpetuating chivalry and female privilege. It was supposed to be about equality.
As for whether women get passed over for jobs, I'd love to see some evidence for that. Oh some women might get passed over due to the choices they are more likely to make, but there are very few if any instances of women getting passed over simply because of their genitalia.
If you want to learn some real facts, google Warren Farrell, Chistina Hoff Sommers, Wendy McElroy, Glenn Sacks, and so on.
Ultimately, it shouldn't be about "us vs them" … it should be egalitarians vs. non-egalitarians.
Good post Lance, but guys like him are way too far gone. The worst part is even a Pavlovian dog needs to be trained while it looks like Steve up and trained himself. A woman could chastise him like a small child and to him thats a bonus, any attention from a woman is what his life revolves around.
Keep up the good work Lance, I've seen a few of your post's elsewhere and you are way ahead of the curve.
Steve, the pay gap is only a snapshot of average yearly full-time incomes. It does not account for overtime (mostly male), type of work, and many other factors. It only exists because women have more options than men to be primary parents and they exercise that option, prioritizing more flexible work hours, shorter commutes, etc. That's why 57% of female graduates of Stanford and Harvard left the workforce within 15 years of entry into the workforce. http://edition.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS/03/15/optout…
That's also why never-married childless women earn more than their male counterparts. And women between ages 21 and 30 working full-time made 117% of men's wages. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html?...
Meanwhile, female CEOs outearned men in 2009. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=10630664
In fact, female U.S. corporate directors out-earn men: study
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0752118...
The pay gap also ignores the expectation gap. Research shows women still seek men who earn more than they do. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8237298/What-wome...
Meanwhile, most men have no problem with their wives outearning them. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23413243
It is women's choices that lead to the pay gap, and is a reflection of female privilege, not male privilege.
For a direct source, see this study funded by the U.S. Department of Labor that looked at various factors and found the pay gap is most likely about life choices.
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Ga...
See also, “Why Men Earn More" by Warren Farrell, Ph.D., who examined 25 career/life choices men and women make (hours, commute times, etc.) that lead to men earning more and women having more balanced lives, and that showed how men in surveys prioritize money while women prioritize flexibility, shorter hours, shorter commutes, less physical risk and other factors conducive to their choice to be primary parents, an option men still largely don’t have. Farrell also lists dozens of careers, including fields of science, where women outearn men.
And for more, see:
ABC News: “Is the Wage Gap Women’s Choice? Research Suggests Career Decisions, Not Sex Bias, Are at Root of Pay Disparity”
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/GiveMeABreak/story?id=…
http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/04/magazines/fortune…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23413243
I've never heard of the NFCM, but I'm glad there are finally organizations out there trying to reel in the multitude of male oppression and female privileges ensconsed in LAW saturating modern society. I'll see what I can do to help
The only other comment I have to make is about Billy Delgado. 1) She might be a woman in diguise or 2) He's one of those guys who lives in gender studies world and run's to tell every woman he know's what a fine feminist he is. He thinks any attention from a woman is his sole reason to exist. Of course those same women who tell him to his face that he's a "dear," laugh behind his back at how repulsive and pathetic he is. Hence the saying, "what a tool."
Oh sure, he doesn't stand with you "masculinists", therefore he must be a woman.
Wow.
You really don't see the bigotry and hypocrisy in your logic, do you? You say you're fighting against discrimination and inequality, but immediately conclude that someone who disagrees with you must be a woman or some sort of feminine man,
You're not a champion of human rights, you're another man full of insecurity and misguided misogyny.
Excellent use of shaming language, unfortunately it no longer works. A valiant attempt at covering all the bases by using bigotry, hypocrisy and misogyny. You did however leave out such classic jems as, "woman hater," "mommy issues," "man up," and the always useful "can't get any."
These are all quite effective for silencing a young boy perhaps, but once you become a man they have no value. Please continue with your gender studies and feminist theory Nate, I'm sure you'll be someone's useful idiot.
So people your whole life have been calling you a misogynist and a woman hater? Ok, well, if that doesn't tell you anything about your views, nothing will.
Yeah, cause everyone else is always right.
Yes Steve, my whole life. In fact my parents named me Misogynist Mike.
You gender benders are priceless. I gotta be honest, I love you "gender is a construct folks." You can be shown dircetly of a man being charged more for the same event as a woman and your entire arguement to justify this is, wait for it………..Misogynist.
I mean is that it? Am I now supposed to meekly bow my head and pay xtra? Here I'll just empty my wallet into the giant marxist feminist pool and whatever you deem I should recieve will be more than I deserve. Like I said, effin priceless.
Thanks for taking a stand against gender discrimination. It seems that people are hypocritical when it comes to males gender discrimination, blind that any type of discrimination is hurtful and it hurt everyone!
It huuuuuuurts…. I want my mooommmmmyyyyyyyy*
*actually a daddy
Gotta love the poor little Billies of the world…can't have anything threaten his masculine side by seeing real men stand up for themselves. Poor little Billy….
Note, I don't usually stoop to such shaming language, but this guy…er person since we can't be sure…is pretty pathetic. What is it about men standing up for their rights that have these guys' panties in a bunch..why do they feel so threatened? I particularly enjoy when they start talking about "real men this…" and "real men that…" when in reality it is quite clear they don't know what a "real man" is. Clue: a real man has the balls to stand up for himself – even against men (and women) who are in favor of the status quo. They don't go along quietly like a well trained lapdog.
Keep up the good work NCFM!
You're not a lapdog because you don't mind "Ladies Night", your a lapdog trained in misogynistic beliefs because you instantly believe that a man standing up got a woman "has his panties in a bunch."
It doesn't make you less of a man to be a gentleman or to not give a shit about a two dollar discount. You're less of a man for hiding behind the false flag of equality when all you want is to be the dominant sex.
How is pointing out inequality a desire to be the dominant sex?
How is pointing out inequality an example of misogyny?
You sound well trained Nate. Good for you.
Thanks NCFM, for opposing discrimination against men.
Some ignorant men are unaware of their vulnerability to discrimination and its wider ranging consequences. Many of those ignorant men are products of a flawed educational system that promotes the standard feminist lies. Many of those ignorant men are in relationships with women and think they are immune to the discrimination, oppression, and disposability that has destroyed the lives of so many good men. Those aforementioned ignorant men live in a fools paradise, where often they become aware of the reality of men’s issues after they hit bottom with a resounding thud; after one, or more, of America’s misandrist social institutions exercises one, or more, of the many misandrist injustices that exist in America.
Unruh Act violations are the tip of an iceberg of misandrist discrimination against men, that exists in America today. Unruh Act violations are insidious misandrist discriminations that condition society to accept a wider range of misandrist discriminations that lower the quality of men’s lives and shorten them. Oppressions against men are accepted in America society and add up to an epidemic of male carnage that would rock the halls of government if allowed to happen to women.
By all means, lawsuits should be filed against every Unruh Act violation against men that exists, in my opinion. Those lawsuits shouldn’t stop until all violations against men’s human rights in America stop, and the hate movement know as gender feminism stops its war on males. NCFM’s primary mission as a 501 (c)3 is to educate all, even ignorant males, and females.
Please continue to do everything in NCFM’s power to address the many discriminations and oppressions that exist against males in America today. Please continue, no matter how loudly a few ignorant males, and females, come screaming and shouting into an enlightenment, where all are treated with true equality, instead of just feminist lip service.
New article:
"Billy Delgado helps NCFM to stop deleting comments he posted because they don't have a good response"
Don't mind me, just helping is all…
Nobody's blocking your posts, Billy. I'm happy to debate this issue with you substantively. I've had a few posts that didn't go through because they were too long, in case that's what it is. But nobody is blocking your posts. Feminists do that, not MRAs.
"Feminists do that, not MRA's"
Wow, that's a comment that seems quite unecessary. Both your group and feminists are fighting for the same thing in your own respect. You don't seem like you want equal rights for men, you seem like you fear/hate women. They're not as scary as you think they might be. Take some time to talk to a real one and maybe you'll find that out for yourself.
It wasn't very long. No longer than the schlong keeping your balls up in your stomach.
No, Frank, we are not fighting the same thing. I respect those feminists who really *are* fighting for equal rights. But the feminists groups in general are not.
Unless you think it's "equal rights" to push for laws that deny fathers equal custody, deny male victims of domestic violence equal treatment and recognition, laws that give women sentencing discounts just for being female, laws that ignore boys' genital integrity rights, laws that erode the due process rights of the falsely accused, laws that exclude male rape victims from equal treatment, etc. etc.
And then there's the "man tax" that they pushed for in Sweden. Do you call that equal rights, Frank?
"Take some time to talk to a real one and maybe you’ll find that out for yourself."
It's funny you say that Frank. I have been the guest speaker at UCLA Law 3 times now for a gender law class that is 99% women and mostly feminists. I do find that the younger, 3rd wave feminists, especially the non-white ones, are more open minded than the 2nd wave "gender-sours" as some people call them. But there is still a stong bias. Even the 3rd wavers don't quite get it. There are a few who do, and they are supportive of men's rights. If that's what you mean by "real" ones, then that's fine. But they are not anywhere near the majority, nor are they represented by the established feminist groups.
There is a movement of mostly-black women who call themselves "womanists" to distinguish themselves from feminists. They address women's issues too. But, as this article states, "One of the primary ways Womanists differentiate themselves from feminists is their concern about men’s rights and their willingness to include men’s rights within their advocacy issues."
http://wesleyanargus.com/2011/03/25/womanist-hous…
I can respect that group. As I said, I have always found the black women's groups far more open minded, intelligent and welcoming of men's rights issues than the angry white feminist groups.
But they're the minoriy, and they're not established feminism.
Yea, Billy, obviously your intellectual prowess puts everyone back on their heels. 🙂
Is this the part where Ashton Kutcher tells the YMCA they've been punked?
;D
;D
"We will find an alternative approach to promote gender equality"
You have to love the idiocy behind a statement like this. "We will find yet more ways to charge men but not women in our efforts to promote gender equality?" Did "Billy the flaming Faggado I love chivalry" write this?
After reading “We will find an alternative approach to promote gender equality”, I was unable to pinpoint the part where men will be charged more. Your gross mistranslation clearly shows how far you guys, I mean kids, are reaching for a solid basis to your hollow arguments.
Thanks NCFM…excellent work. "Billy DelFagado" is obviously threatened by men sticking up for their rights…because he's such a big tough guy, you see.
By "threatened" you must mean "face palming himself because a bunch of pissed off single guys are lashing out at women who they fear are more powerful than them".
Also, can I buy you a Rockstar? I'll bet you stayed up all night thinking of "Delfagado". You'd have to pay me back though, cuz you know, discrimination and stuff…
Its funny billy (chivalrous moron), funny because what the NCFM did pales in comparison what those precious womens groups of yours do whenever a male only anything is created.
As documented in Christina Hoff Sommers book "the war against boys" womens groups will sue anything and everything that "discriminates" against females, which is one of the reasons for the decline of Male only colleges to just 3 traditional male only colleges in the entire US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_colleges_…
Compared with the hundreds women still have.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_and_…
So STFU mangina NCFM sent a freaking letter pointing out discrimination against boys (something a mangina/feminist like you is probably ok with) at least they didnt sue the crap out of the Y and make an assload of money like wommins groups do on a regular basis.
Wikipedia: America's most trusted source for news
Believe me, I can't stand feminists either. It's just that when you say "equal rights for group A" or "equal rights for group B", you are promoting one group over another.
IF YOU ARE TRULY FOR EQUALITY BETWEEN SEXES, YOU WOULD BE ONE LARGE GROUP WORKING WITH THE FEMINISTS RATHER THAN EACH STRIVING FOR DOMINANCE
What a shallow lie! LIES! Insecurity and LIES!
“I can’t stand feminists either. It’s just that when you say “equal rights for group A” or “equal rights for group B”, you are promoting one group over another.”
I disagree. Groups usually form because certain people feel a passion for certain group’s rights being specifically targetted and denied. That’s the nature of activism. A group that forms to address the rights of everyone would be unable to focus and have too much internal division. MRA groups couldn’t form with feminists groups, for example, because feminist groups constantly lie about things like the statistics on domestic violence, and they actually *support* discirminatory laws such as the laws that exclude male victims of domestic violence. They have even tried to create a “man tax.” There is no possible way a group like NCFM that supports equal rights could join with a group that wants to create discriminatory laws. And there is a specific need for groups that support men’s rights because most civil rights groups like the ACLU generally ignore men’s equal rights, and they create subgroups for women’s issues but not subgroups for men’s issues because they don’t want to address men’s rights.
"IF YOU ARE TRULY FOR EQUALITY BETWEEN SEXES, YOU WOULD BE ONE LARGE GROUP WORKING WITH THE FEMINISTS RATHER THAN EACH STRIVING FOR DOMINANCE"
Thats funny cause its feminists the ones that are striving for "dominance" and to put one group over the other, for example thru forced gender quotas like Title IX (a law which has ruined mens sports programs at the college level).
And working with feminists is laughable to guys like me because they are not fighting for "equality" and take no chance not to dismiss or fight against valid mens rights issues whenever they can.
NOW (largest feminist org in america) posts "action alert" against shared parenting bill (you know the one that would give fathers equal custody rights)
http://www.glennsacks.com/enewsletters/enews_11_2…
Sorry but working with feminists is impossible because they are all just as hateful to actual equality as you are.
Oh and if you dont believe the wikipedia article then feel free to do a little google search on male only vs female only colleges it doesnt take too much time and judging by the amount of hateful comments you are leaving Id say you can probably spare a few minutes to do a little research on your own.
{sitting quietly applauding as Marc demolishes Billy and Chris with logic}
As a man in his 50s I found the most confronting thing about mens activism was accepting that the values of my lifetime were wrong. Woman are not more valuable, more morally or intellectually superior than we are. Treating them as anything other than equal by not holding them to account, by showing them advantage we would not give ourselves is simply sexist. I am amused when a man who still has last century values argues against men's equality, when their views are ipso facto indicative of a subservient position – that is you defend the advantage of others. Being fawning and deferential to women in order to garner their approval and somehow validate oneself is what little boys do with their mummies. We have grown up, you have not.
Being senile isn't quite the same as growing up. I will give you this though; women are not more important than men, and vice versa. But you are degrading and humiliating yourselves and the rest of us fellow men as you make huge deals of frivolous "issues". This organization apparently does not have the strength to take on real issues so they take candy from babies and reword it to sound like they've captured Osama Bin Laden.
"This organization apparently does not have the strength to take on real issues so they take candy from babies and reword it to sound like they’ve captured Osama Bin Laden."
Well I think male victims of domestic violence and their kids, fathers' custody rights, paternity fraud, criminal sentencings, etc. are real issues. And no, NCFM never made a "captured Osama Bin Laden" out of this issue (alhough people like you seem to be). NCFM simply sent a letter, then posted the issue on their site like they do most other issues that come up, and told the media what was going on. That's no more than any other activist group does when they do something to stop discrimination or whatever it is they target.
I applaud you, Marcky Boy, for realizing that intense things such as male child abuse and domestic violence are happening and should be stopped. So you boys take the easiest issue you can barely find and glorify it. You have bigger fish to fry, right? Or would you rather continue taking pennies from little girls?
Its hard enough to fight the "big" issues billy like you apparently want us to, fact is mens issues dont get the amount of attention womens issues do so when there is a "victory" (regardless of how insignificant) we post it.
And regardless of how you feel – take discrimination because your a "man" – charging boys more that girls is wrong…or it would be if it were reversed but since its not some teenage idiots are making a big deal about it.
THANK YOU NCFM for what you are doing on behalf of men and boys. This is so needed. I am very glad i'm not a young male now getting discriminated against by these policies in the YMCA or Cycling events. It would have been very difficult for me at that young age to deal with that psychologically.
If your going to cut in half the price for girls or women and charge full price for boys and men it's just like saying your going to double the price for boys and men. That is just such frankly for me evil unspeakable.
Satanic, really. Haha you guys are so sensitive! It's kinda cute <3
And you’re kind of an idiot. That’s some pretty moroninc sarcasm you got going there.
I know this is really outside the box thinking, but why not charge a flat rate of — oh — I dunno know — say $3.00 per person? I have been reading through these posts for some time now, and all I can say is there is no way anything will make everybody happy. I keep reading posts from other groups on other sites as well as this site, taking a step back and looking at the overall picture and it is easy to see the intentions of each group on a step by step basis.
Ladies Night at clubs no cover charge for the women. Having run three clubs I know something about the reasoning behind that. This is mostly done on off nights ie – weeknights – when attendance is down. The clubs know that those nights are mostly filled by men coming throught the door, so to balance things out, and be known as a place where you 'might score', ladies are let in for free (not to mention that by having more women there they will sale more drinks and lets not forget that in a lot of cases it will be the man buying a drink for a women he's hitting on). But it is none the less discrimination and agienst the law.
As long as one gender seeks to have any advantage on any issue, there will be someone to cry foul. The only way this can happen is when it is a flat level playing field for all sides. This is the work, no matter how small the issue, the NCFM is doing when ever it comes to their attention.
This doesn't mean your a sexist when you open a door for a lady does it?
BF
So you're admitting to illegally discriminating, seeing as how you ran nightclubs while knowingly allowing women in for less or none. Look before you leap, Brando Calrissian.
Is that supposed to be some kind of gotcha? real pentrating comment – not. You sound like some little 8th grade bitch screaming at another litle 8th grade bitch in the school hallway.
We have some members from YMCA, and we are against all kind of discrimination!
Even when it is related to gender.
Please, visit: http://lavozdelospapas.canalblog.com
(the 1st prg against SAP and men discrimination)
Technically they are not "charging more." Say the true facts.
Oh, then I guess they were "charging less" for girls. I see. Now that makes a difference. Technically.
I'll give you $2 to pay the difference. I haven't skated for years but let's shred, buddy!
Sounds good, and since the sex-based discriminatory pricing is gone, the $2 is irrelevant, despite some people's strangely reactive and mephitic anger about the equal treatment of men and women.
That $2 was enough to put your panties in a bunch, so it's completely relevant. That's why we're wasting time debating a mindless issue that strikes discomfort into the hearts of insecure little boys in grown men's bodies, much like a Babushka Doll from communist Russia.
LOL! Yeah the discrimination was enough for NCFM to write a letter and end the discrimination. But the fun part was watching idiots like you get your punani-whiskers aroused enough to come here and pretend we're the angry ones. Hahaha!
Actually, me posting comments online is much easier than starting an organization based off of heartbreak, vengeance, insecurity, and tears of anguish.
“Actually, me posting comments online is much easier than starting an organization based off of heartbreak, vengeance, insecurity, and tears of anguish”
Maybe, except the organiztion has been around for 35 years and has done tons of other work, and certainly didn’t form over this one issue. You, on the other hand, sure spend alot of time here on this one issue. Thanks, though, we appreciate the attention.
Sounds like Billy Bob here is one of those guys who doesn't have much going for him in the way of looks, humor, charm, or career so he has to get women by paying for them either indirectly by subsidizing their cover charge or drinks on Ladies' Night or their admittance into a bike festival, or directly by . . . well, you know what. Anyway, I'm sure Billy gets exactly what he pays for.
Wow, who's setting women's rights back 50 years here, Billy or you?
Paying for a woman is not the same as "paying for a woman". Don't reduce the status of one gender as whores just because of some Personal bias.
I grew up surfing and skateboarding. There are plenty of both genders doing both sports nowadays. Maybe it’s an oversight by YMCA, but it’s certainly a “good call” by NCFM to make a good point.
Surfing is fairly proportional, but skating is overwhelmingly male dominant. Stats plz + thx
By "male dominant," you must mean more men than women choose to do it. Sort of the way shopping is "female dominant." Maybe we should give discounts to men at shopping malls. I wonder if women's groups would object. And if they did, I wonder if you would spend a bunch of time on their sites angrily calling them names.
I think there's actually a lot of men who shop…we just may shop for different things,
Besides, clothes shopping (if that's what kind of shopping you were implying was female dominant) isn't really a good comparison to a recreational activity/sport.
And if anything, it seems that it's been pro-male users calling Billy names…for the most part.
Nice try though.
Yeah we shop for different things, but in sheer numbers women dominate shopping. But of course if you want to break it down to a specific things, then compare the floor space at Macy's between men's and women's items. Should men get discounts at Macy's? or at Body and Bath, for that matter?
Or how about, say, hula classes? My gf and I sometimes take hula classes together. In Hawaii there are plenty of male hula dancers. But it hasn't caught on much with men in the U.S. Does that make it "female dominated"? Sometimes I'm the only male there. But I don't feel "dominated." Nor do I think it would be right to create a sex-based discount for males. Feminists groups would fight that just as they do at salons and dry cleaners.
No matter how you cut it up, the whole "male-dominated" argument just doesn't really make sense.
If you're one of those who believes all private businesses should be able to do whatever they want, including discriminate by race (I'm not assuing you are), then I at least respect your consistency. What I don't respect is the hypocrisy of those who flip out at a men's group for challenging this kind of discrimination while not expressing the same anger at women's groups when they do the same thing, just because one sex is more interested in the event than the other.
As for name-calling, there has been plenty from both sides but it was initiated by the anti-NCFM folks.
Uh oh, I just set myself up for an anti-MRA reacto to use my hula dancing against me. Oh well, so I'm a hula dancing MRA. And loving every minute of. I also mountain bike, backpack, snowboard, etc. but hula is the funnest, gets my gf and I going!
And no, I do NOT want a price discount for being male.
its funny Nate because I believe it was Billy that started the personal attacks, so what are we supposed to respond kindly to shame language?
Ey, Bill Delgado whats a 'Real Man ' mean to you ? Explaine! Those days are gone Amigo…gone !!! Young man now are smart . No more stupid " Nice Guy" ,no more !! We dont wana be loosers like our Fathers . No thaanks! Puting women on piedestal… .Idiots. You wana go on a date you pay half missy ! Mr. Delgato grow a pair ,You can say 'No' to a woman ,come on try is not so hard. Thats haw you get respect and love man .
cheers
After spell checking and translating your 3rd grade grammar, I've concluded that you're the idiot, Tinkerbell. I've gone through what this organization is feeling, primarily when my prom date said "no" in the 10th grade. But I've graduated high school and matured.
And I'm sorry your father was a loser. Sounds like you need a hug, but I'm guessing you'd prefer it from a dude.
Billy DelFago is a 300 pound mangina with a face like a clenched fist…sitting in mommy's basement, typing with one hand while she touches herself, swooning about how she can tell all those bad menz to "grow a pair".
Billy Delgado likes this [thumbs up symbol]
A valid point pertaining to this issue, my dearest friend XD
I love how this is supposed to be about equal rights, fair treatment, and the fight against discrimination, but the first words out of everyone's mouth are immediately, "Wow, Billy is a fag!", "What a Mangina!", and "nice one Delfago!".
This isn't a discussion about equal rights, it's a bunch of misogynists hiding behind the guise of equality to promote their skewed world views and hate.
Good point, Nate. I guess real men are the first to call someone a fag if they share strong views that oppose their own. Equal rights are supposed to be the goal? Because to me, this appears to be a website specifically designed to bitch about things that don't really matter. Obviously, the female demographic isn't as present as the YMCA might like. They are truly looking for diversity by lowering prices to encourage this group of people (who happen to be women) to join in the events. If more women/girls start to show up more regularly, I don't see why the prices they pay would end up being the same as everyone else pays. You poor chaps are reading too far into this and need to relax.
"Misogynist!"…this is often the first ad hominem out of the mouth of the shaming mangina. Nate does a good job of fitting the well-trained house-boy caricature perfectly. Nobody here has said a single negative thing about women, you tool. Nice try though. Now go run and tell your feminist friends how you told us off.
You have some intense vizualization there, you really should consider becoming a writer for a man's-equal-rights-romance novel. I forsee it being wrought with spelling errors and no real story line.
I agree with Billy. I believe that park has a Military Monday deal – did you "men" want to take the benefits of our armed services away as well? Nightclubs tend to be dominantly male as well, therefore they let women in for less, if not free. Business models do this to level the playing field. I applaud the YMCA for accurately being MEN, and for promoting equality rather than male domination.
"I believe that park has a Military Monday deal – did you “men” want to take the benefits of our armed services away as well?"
Military Monday doesn't exclude women, does it? I doubt it. If it did, women would rightfully object, and I doubt you would have any problem with it. You just have a problem when men speak out against discrimination against men. If Miliary Monday does exclude women, then it's illegal and someone should point that out.
"Nightclubs tend to be dominantly male as well, therefore they let women in for less, if not free."
That's similar to the reason salons and dry cleaners have often given discounts to men, isn't it? And women still rightly objected, and it's still illegaly. The reason behind it doesn't matter. It's sex discrimination. Period. And while I have seen no research showing the effect on gender ratios in nightclubs, if the goal is to draw more men by bringing in more women, then it probably doesn't change the ratio much. In fact, the more it serves its purpose the less it improves the ratio for men.
Dear Karl Marx,
As stated by "you are wrong", men are not charged more. They pay the default price. Based off of your logic, Military Mondays discriminate against everyone not serving, bars discriminate underage drinkers, car washes discriminate against larger vehicles… And omg blue parking spaces discriminate against the non-handicapped!
Everyone who supports this Nazi-esque group needs to stop poetically translating a beautiful birth into a morbid abortion.
-BD
NCFM makes me lol. What kind of real man would whine about a two dollar difference on one day of the week? They should call it NFCB, as these are not men, but boys. I've never seen a "man" act like such a princess, ironically lacking in chivalry. The NFCM certainly isn't doing men any good, wrongfully representing an entire gender on their own skewed accord. Change your name please, because I, as a real man, would not like to be categorized or associated with you in any distant way. Maybe grow a pair before you add the word "Men" in you acronym.
"What kind of real man would whine about a two dollar difference on one day of the week?"
Ahh, the "real man" garbage that has been used historically to control males into action and to shut up when discriminated against. "Real men" don't whine and don't complain when they face gender discrimination, right? Well, I do. And I applaud NCFM. Women complain when they're charged $2 more at a hair salon or dry cleaner, and they sue. And rightly so. So should men. This type of discrimination conditions boys and men to accept discrimination against males as though it's "normal" and feeds into larger forms of anti-male discrimination like in child custody, criminal sentencing, DV policies, etc.
So yeah, good for you NCFM. Keep going despite comments of igno-reactionaries.
"ironically lacking in chivalry."
That's right. Chivaly is all about men discriminating against other men or accepting discrimination against men. It's the male institution that allows fathers to be denied equal treatment, and allows males worldwide to accept forced military conscription, etc. etc. That's right, MRA's proudly denounce your idiotic sexist "chivalry."
Merriam Webster called, they want "chivalry" back
Ok well let them have it. It wasn't here to begin with.
It was until the Nazi Communist Fairy Men came about. Are you just mad that Hooters denied your application? ;(